Interview with Pepê Lima

Pepê Lima ("PL") interviewed on Thursday, 19 May.

Could you please tell us about your experience as a designer, artist, architect or creator?

PL : I studied at Belas Artes University Center in Sao Paulo and graduated in 2004. Since my hometown was in another state, every vacation I would go home to be with my family. Through some contacts I, eventually, had the opportunity to intern in an esteemed outdoor furniture factory, Mac Design, whose headquarters was in my hometown. Every vacation I`d put together the useful and the pleasant, visit my family and intern. I would do just about anything in my internship, help with the cleaning, carry wood, help with the masonry, assemble and package furniture, etc. All of this was crucial to my growth and learning process, as I understood how a factory worked in every section and every step of production. After graduating I became a permanent employee in this same factory, where I remained for a couple more years. In 2007 I went to Italy, lived in Milan for 5 years, where I studied the Laurea Magistrale in Product Design at Politecnico di Milano. When I returned to Brazil I went back to working as resident designer at Mac up until 2015, at this time I had way too many ideas and projects for indoor furniture, I decided I needed to branch out build my own studio as to take up more clients. This is how I ended up in Curitiba in 2015, where opened my own studio and remain until this day.

How did you become a designer?

PL : To be honest, I found out I had a liking for furniture even before I started design at university. I`ve always been the type of person who likes to watch a lot of movies and I noticed I would always pay attention to the decoration and settings in movies; I mean, who never had an urge to sit on Captain Kirk’s chair? This sense of observation also extended to everyday environments, I would always pay attention to armchairs, tables, and details; not like an indifferent person would, but with a very critic and interested eye. When I was just over 8 years old, I drew everything and I already had a certain degree of interest and perception of the details in the products I saw. From then on, I believe it was all pretty automatic, I would sit down with the intention of drawing a horse and at the end I’d catch myself drawing a chair. In university, I had gotten used to the furniture world and I was convinced that’s what I would end up doing. Despite that, I always studied courses focused on general design, instead of only ‘’furniture design’’; at the time, I didn’t want to limit my opportunities in the market, I even participated in a mini-system project for Toshiba, in collaboration with a studio in Sao Paulo, but I was always convinced it was my calling to draw furniture. All of this brought me to where I am today.

What are your priorities, technique and style when designing?

PL : My priority is to make it different. I took it as a design philosophy to always try to focus on something that hasn't been done, that is visually pleasing and unprecedented. So, everything starts from the aesthetics, and from there I will adapt my idea so that it is not only a beautiful product, but also comfortable and functional; after all, there needs to be a balance. I usually say that my design is a “sit in the fence”, a middle ground. The conceptual is inversely proportional to the commercial and that's why I try to provide my products with a conceptual tone without harming commerciality; everything just right. That's why I don't usually stick to a particular style. At the end of the day, I end up having a very eclectic portfolio of products, but most of them are products tending towards a futuristic and organic style, where I try to give unusual shapes to materials and especially to details; I love details and am a strong advocate that they make all the difference. I really enjoy working and creating new shapes from wood and with the evolution of CNC's, a range of possibilities has opened for me, who has a certain conceptual appeal in my creations. Today, woodworking in an elaborate and organic way is the fundamental point in my products. When I start designing, I try to make a basic first sketch, so I won’t forget the idea, then I dedicate some time to redraw that first sketch to finally go to the 3D rendering, on the computer. I present the rendering to a manufacturer with whom I have an established partnership, one I can identify that the product would be the right fit. If it’s approved, I provide the necessary technical detailing to prototype the real product. I am not a designer who makes mock-ups or physical models. With the more experience you gain, you end up developing a more precise perception of what is there on the computer, and you can foresee whether it will work without having to do the mock-up.

Which emotions do you feel when designing?

PL : I'm constantly trying to outdo myself, so I think the emotion that comes out the most in me is pride in realizing that I've outdone myself, evolved, and designed something cooler than the last project. For me, the best part of the project is when I find myself for the first time in front of the final prototype, that one which is finished, ready and will go to the furniture fair. It's a feeling of mission accomplished and victory. As much as I have knowledge of production and how a project will be developed, we always come across some difficulties that appear along the way. In the end, when the prototype is ready, I can't think of a phrase very different from: "- We did it!" I also like the modeling phase, regardless of my knowing what I want to develop. When I am doing the 3D modeling, a world of possibilities unravels, and many things end up being changed from the first sketch; many details are added. It is a fun stage, especially when I know that whatever will be put there will be made into reality. At the end of the day, I could say that designing is a way to put a small piece of your current emotions into a product. Design has the power of absorbing the emotions of its creator when it is done by professionals who are passionate about what they do. Doing what you like to do is very important and gratifying, it feels just like therapy to me.

What particular aspects of your background shaped you as a designer?

PL : I have always been a very curious person; I’ve always enjoyed reading articles, and watching documentaries with the vastest variety of themes imaginable, and this diversity of information and culture has contributed to stimulating my most creative side. I am committed to what I start, I don’t like to section the task I set forth into multiple parts. Most of the time, when I begin something, I like to work on it until it is finished, or a specific goal that I have set is reached, or even when I reach the point of exhaustion. I feel it is important not to have interruptions throughout my thinking process. Of course, there are moments when I have no idea how I should proceed with a task; in this case, I believe the best course of action is to take a break and engage myself with another activity to cool my head off. However, I usually try to reach specific points within the project before I take a break. It is very detrimental to my thought process to randomly take breaks, especially during more complex projects. When I return to the worktable, it tends to always be the same internal questioning as to how I was planning on moving forward with this detail or that issue. Another aspect is the passion with which I do things. There are several different types of professionals: some project considering the financial gain that will come from a product, others design because they’ve had no other choices, and so on… I don’t judge; I respect the motivations of each professional, but when you do something that you are passionate about, and you know you were born to do it, it becomes something remarkably special! It is astounding how everything seems to flow, how everything fits perfectly, and how positively things happen. I am also very devoted to my manufacturing partners. I try to often give suggestions about things, even when they are not my expertise. When I close a partnership, I really give my all to that company as if it were my own. I am a real team player in that sense. I want the company to thrive and become a reference in the marketplace. But we must have an understanding of mutual growth, without this, the partnership simply won’t take off.

What is your growth path? What are your future plans? What is your dream design project?

PL : As of late, I have managed to produce and accomplish very solid partnerships that have taken upon themselves the challenge of making some products that, a few years ago, were an unthinkable 3D structure, maybe only accomplishable in dreams. As we move towards establishing a good reputation and more experience, many doors start opening and many dreams start coming true. However, if I am to think of a specific product, I have an armchair named C6, which would be of such complexity that it is not yet possible to be produced. A partner company has accepted the challenge to try, but for now, it’s just a dream because there is a good chance that we won’t be able to execute it. We also have every day some complicated products in line to be developed. We’re starting now our prototyping phase and we hope that 2023 will be a year with many great new things. Professionally speaking, for the future I just hope to continue as I am, having the necessary creativity, health, and passion that I need to follow through with my project and please my customers. This way, continually adding to the world of design so that, when I retire, I might be remembered as a designer who fought for expression and freedom of design, who swam against the currents, and who tried to make things differently from everyone else. For now, all that I can say is that I have a lot still in me to do and show, and I hope that people will like what is coming.

What are your advices to designers who are at the beginning of their career?

PL : I think the most important thing is humility. Humility to learn, listen to the most experienced ones, accept criticism, ask for help, develop a career calmly and seriously, and understand that there is no one who knows everything. It is normal for students to graduate and leave colleges eager to design for large factories, I also left college with these thoughts. The fact is that we only learn theory there; the practice, the reality of our profession, we will only learn by working, with sweat. So look for an internship, work in a factory, carpentry shop, locksmith shop or things like that, even if the salary is low; learning is priceless. Feel and experience the day to day of the shop floor, help clean, help load products, assemble, pack, bring coffee to the boss, be secretaries, carry raw materials, answer the phone, screw the parts, drill holes in wood, etc, etc, etc, learn everything you can and don't feel unworthy for not putting you at a table to develop new products, don't skip steps. Up ahead, when you are designing for a large company, you will remember this young time of learning and realize how fundamental it was for the development and emergence of the efficient designer that you have become.

You are truly successful as a designer, what do you suggest to fellow designers, artists and architects?

PL : I would mention some important attributes to be constantly worked on: Focus. Being focused on your project and ignoring outside interference is critical. Less focus on competing, more focus on accomplishing a good outcome. Perseverance. Many things go and will go wrong over the course of a project and its development, giving up on a good project should not be an option. Patience. Some projects take time to achieve the expected result and we should not speed up the process in the rush to see it completed. If it's still not good, do it again. If it's still not good, do it again. Curiosity. Learn everything you can in all sectors, from the most obvious to the most unusual. Culture and knowledge are important fuels for creativity. Ethics. We all would like to design for the biggest number of companies possible but be mindful not to design for rival companies. Don’t copy other designers' work or ideas and do your best for your partnering manufacturer to thrive.

What is your day to day look like?

PL : I am a very methodical and routine person; I wake up and while I have my coffee, I plan the pending tasks that I must solve throughout the day. Thinking about an ordinary day, the morning is usually dedicated to personal matters; apart from the afternoon I dedicate to work, projects, matters with the factories and related things. At night I go back to my personal and family affairs until I go to bed and watch TV until I fall asleep. On days when my creativity is very fast, I spend the night and dawn modeling or drawing, I am an extremely nocturnal person. I'm quite a homebody and I usually go out very little, usually to take the dog for a walk, or for a car ride without a destination, I like to unwind like that. The weekends I reserve for rest, activities with my fiancée, dog, cat, video games, movies, cars and others. We all need our moments to disconnect from work. While projecting, I simply assess my assignment and set a deadline. I tend to keep my schedules extremely flexible because I think that flexibility helps a lot with creativity, keeping a “cool head” and deconstructing the feeling of obligation. Doing things at a certain moment without will hinders everything. So, it's not strange to find myself playing video games on a Tuesday around 2pm, or taking a nap, walking around town, etc. The important thing is that I meet my schedule and have my project ready on the date I set; the order of events and schedule of my activities, until then, is irrelevant to me.

How do you keep up with latest design trends? To what extent do design trends matter?

PL : I believe it is all a matter of point of view, and I have my own perspective when it comes to trends. Yes, they exist, but we can’t mix up trends with lack of creativity. What I see is a great number of similar products being launched, sharing the same characteristics under the pretext of following a certain trend. For me, that is not what following a trend means, that is copying, restyling, and rematerializing; a true absence of creativity towards whatever is being designed. To follow a trend means to be aware of wider aspects, such as materials, colors, textures, and styles–such as whether the piece should be more angular or more organic–that are in vogue. From this information, one should develop a product that is in line with the current trends but is not one more product for sale that is just like thousands of others. The way I see it, this kind of discernment is important. I can’t say that lately I have been personally influenced by current trends, mostly because I have been focusing on materials that I like such as softwood, tapestry, fabric, leather, and some metallic detailing. I have also been following my own intuition and the challenges that I have set forth for myself. Normally my products are not born from physical and visual inspirations, but from purposes and goals. Some time ago I abandoned the idea of ​​seeking inspiration in materiality and started to challenge my creative abilities with deeper aspects. I realized that the possibilities were greater. That said, I usually impose challenges like: “- What if I made an armchair that looks like it had been blown up?”, from there I will pursue this reasoning, this is my inspiration. Some ideas come out of nowhere like lightning, they just appear and often they are excellent ideas that inexplicably arise where I can mentally visualize all aspects and details of the product. Of course, there are also those with some material inspiration, in elements of nature, etc., but in recent years it has occurred less frequently. I've focused less on what's going on around me and dedicated more to introspection and reflection. To constantly feed my creativity, I follow the most paradoxical path, which is not thinking about it, I take advantage of my day to develop other activities that I enjoy, that relax me and disconnect me from the idea of ​​designing. The less I wait and look, the faster the answers come; it has worked out very well for me.

How do you know if a product or project is well designed? How do you define good design?

PL : The aesthetics. A good design must be beautiful, it must attract attention and please from a distance, by photo, by video, through a shop window. Even before knowing if it is comfortable and functional, it must win over the consumer for its aesthetics, make that consumer feel interested in trying that product to define if it is comfortable and meets their requirements. Nobody wants to experiment and neither wants to own something that is not aesthetically well resolved. At the end of the day, it's simple math: the consumer will always see the product in an infinitely greater proportion than they will use it; he sees the armchair in the living room thousands of times throughout the day, but he will sit there three, four, five times and still sitting he will be watching it. Innovation and a certain degree of originality are very relevant elements, too. We are all tired of seeing similar things being launched by rival companies; products, which are like other existing ones, are treated as if they were the next best thing. Many people doing more of the same. When I go to a fair or a show, or even when I see on social media, and I manage to find an original product, I feel overwhelmed with happiness; I feel as though design is fighting through, creativity is overcoming sameness, and companies aren’t providing a disservice to the consumer successfully.

How do you decide if your design is ready?

PL : I think the main point is for the designer to stipulate the target audience for which that product will be destined, and from there to reason as such target audience. When I finish a project, I try to put myself in my target's shoes and ask myself the following question: “- If I were such a consumer, would I want to have this product in my house?”. If the answer is yes and there are no doubts, it means that the project is correct and will achieve a good performance with its respective consumer. With all this in mind, we must know the moment to stop. There are some situations in which a product may have additional details or finishings which could elevate the product even further, but we must be harmonious, whether aesthetically or commercially. A product mustn’t be overloaded with details, as well as it shouldn’t be excessively expensive due to exaggerations.

What is your biggest design work?

PL : For now, I’d say it’s the Fly armchair, it was a real game changer for me and the manufacturing company, as it taught us a lot and opened up to a bunch of opportunities in the future. Besides the commercial side where it had great market acceptance, it was also an A’Design winner, honorable mention in the IDA, and it’s risky and innovative shaped have been a real milestone in my career. The central concept was to create a product that had its parts disconnected, but that was still able to maintain an idea of continuity. I studied at length the Deconstructive Style, and I was able to use layering and contrasts to show the texture of the wood as though the chair were dressed in armor. Even with the separate parts, I tried to maintain coherence within the radiuses and parallelism with the lines to have an idea of fluidity. But like I said, for now. My goal is to always surpass myself, and I already have some products up my sleeve for 2023 which I think will be even more important. I have a lot of projects in progress, but surely three products deserve more attention. They are two armchairs and one chair, and they are very challenging products. Without a doubt, the Eleanor Chair it’s the most complex product I’ve designed, with such fluidity that in this very moment it’s being 3D printed, so that we can study the next production steps. Normally I work with technical drawings, but this project’s high level of organicity made us opt for new solutions such as 3D printing. I’m very excited to find out how this product will turn out. We hope to complete it by 2023. I`ve been working a lot on my fluidity and organization, which is why I would say we can expect a Pepê Lima with more fluid strokes

Who is your favourite designer?

PL : I have a long list of designers whom I admire, such as Charles and Ray Eames, Eero Saarinen, Alvar Aalto, Gio Ponti, Jorge Zalszupin, Giorgetto Giugiaro, and the list goes on, it is almost endless. Amongst all these designers, I believe that Charles and Ray Eames are names which I have the highest regard for, and I if could go back in time, I would love to have the pleasure to meet them, listen to them, and exchange experiences with them.

Would you tell us a bit about your lifestyle and culture?

PL : I am a reserved type of person. I don’t go out often for big events, but rather for small gatherings. The global pandemic contributed to my spending even more time at home. Besides that, I’ve always been very attached to my house, and I always joke with my friends that the moment that I leave my house, I already start missing it. Of course, I do enjoy traveling. I love smaller and more medieval towns in Italy. I love Paris, too. Actually, I love all of Europe! There are great places to rest your mind and, most importantly, to eat good food. But I do confess that when I come back home, I feel even happier. I am also in love with cars and video games. They are both sources of entertainment that I can really sink into. Driving around town aimlessly or spending the whole night on the weekend playing online games with my friends are things that I really like to do. I am constantly bombarded by ideas and products that I would like to design, and these ways of entertainment help me disconnect from work and other worries. Music is always present while I am creating, it helps me to allow the work to flow. The funny thing is that I am extremely eclectic, so it is quite normal that you’ll hear me listen to Beethoven just after a Metallica song, then followed by Kitaro, and then on. I was born and live in Brazil although I have lived in Italy for many years. Brazil is culturally very rich, we have a great diversity here because we are a big country, and although we have accepted and introduced the culture of design at a late stage, I see that we are achieving a significant space and recognition at a global level; We have many talented designers making a name for themselves around the world. Around here, it is a tradition to use wood in the furniture sector, a very abundant raw material and with a lot of reforestation points. With such a tradition, it was fundamental to learn how to work with wood, which shaped my development and style of the products I design today. The positive point is precisely the fact that I have this passion for the texture and color of wood, as it is my favorite raw material to work with. Therefore, being in a country with an abundance of this raw material is quite favorable. The downside is that the technology here is very expensive, and as I evolve as a designer, my products also evolve and require more and more productive technology. It's not easy to try to do something different in a country where all the technology is imported and expensive.

Would you tell us more about your work culture and business philosophy?

PL : My studio is one-man; here I am the one who does everything: I create, design, model and render in 3D, I propose to partner factories, prepare the technical drawings, monitor prototypes, take care of my social networks, website, etc. It's quite heavy but I prefer that way, being behind every stage. For the moment, this is how I have been working: alone. In the past, I designed some products alongside my fiancé, Claudia Mazzieri, who is also a designer, but we have very different design styles, and for a good collaboration amongst designers, it is necessary that both have the same creative languages. Since I can remember, I have designed for partner manufacturers that are known and chosen for their commitment and their production capabilities. It is necessary that the designer gets along well with the company for things to work out well. I’ve had many partnerships that had to be terminated due to this lack of rapport. The beginning tends to be more difficult; it is like a marriage where the bride and groom don’t know each other very well and everything demands a lot of diplomacy and patience. With due time, a bond is formed, and a solid partnership is established. This is when the designer needs to dedicate him or herself to the fullest for the success of the business, by not designing for rival companies and treating the partnering company as though it was their own, which will automatically result in his or her own professional success.

What are your philanthropic contributions to society as a designer, artist and architect?

PL : Lately, I have been very focused and busy with my current partnerships, but I would like to have more time to dedicate myself to humanitarian projects. But, as I’ve mentioned before, it is not easy to be the only person in the studio who does everything from drawing the first sketches of the project to overseeing its prototyping and launching strategies. It is a huge pressure and a great workload. But it was how I managed to find a way to linearly standardize all the stages of each project that happen in my studio, as well as input my DNA into each process. At least, if something goes wrong, I'm the autor of the whole disaster. I have always had a strong admiration for professionals who develop humanitarian projects and pro-bono designs for the betterment of society. I want to join them soon and do more for the world. Maybe when I start hiring interns and collaborators to share some of my studio’s current workload, I’ll be able to dedicate part of my time to these projects. As for now, everything that I can do is help young designers who seek me out for advice and tips about the design market, most find me via Instagram. I always try to reply and encourage all as well as I can, and I don’t charge for this. I believe there are many diamonds in the rough out there that need a little honing so they may become great names in design. We need to help, collaborate and strengthen our peers. The more talented designers we have standing out, the more our profession will be respected. It will be beneficial to us all.

What positive experiences you had when you attend the A’ Design Award?

PL : I can consider this my first international project. Until today, I have participated in this international award and only one other, in which I received an honorable mention for the same product. So, it is still premature to determine which were the real benefits that I have harvested from all of this. I have noticed, however, a certain turnover within my social media accounts. My work has touched places on earth that I could never have imagined. Many people have been reaching out and trying to get to know me more and what I’ve developed, and I think that is one of the benefits of these design awards: visibility. I have never been an avid participant in awards. I joined very few national ones throughout my career, and there is no shadow of a doubt that winning an international award of the size of A’ Design is very gratifying, a true feeling of professional accomplishment. It shows me that I am not as crazy as I thought I was when I looked at my complex and complicated products. This is important because it indicates that I am on the right path, following my intuition and trying to do something different. With so many strong and knowledgeable judges positively evaluating my product, it can't mean anything different. And things don’t stop there. Because to be considered Designer of The Day by critics and jurors of great relevance and knowledge in the world’s design scene is indescribable! I feel blessed and happy for such high acknowledgment. It means that somewhere around the world, someone took time out of their day to talk and pay tribute to my work, and that is priceless!

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